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Sailmaking - Evaluation Sails

Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:20 am
by Donald McLaren
The two suits of Evaluation Sails - from North Sails and from UK Sails - are both ready and are in early trial use in the Solent and in Ireland respectively. See Paul Prentice's General Chat thread for news on this as it happens.

The sails are scheduled to be in Scotland for the Scottish Series in late May, then in Northern Ireland for the Irish Championship in early June, then back to the Clyde for the Class Championship, and then to the South Coast for Cowes Week.

After much discussion, the committee proposal is that the sails are used, for the WHOLE of these major events, by well-placed boats from the equivalent 2012 events. The intention is that this should ensure serious competitive focus in order that our evaluation is as thorough as possible. (The winners of these events in 2012 will use their Elvstrom sails in this year's events.) There may be debate and unease about perceived advantage or even disadvantage from this plan, but the committee's view is that we need to take a serious one-season bite at this important topic, to come up with a balanced view on sailmaking, and that a little bit of pain needs to be tolerated!

If you wish to assist with the evaluation please contact your local (or nearest!) committee member: Alan Harper (Clyde), Paul Prentice (Belfast Lough), Tim Goodbody (Dublin Bay), Michael Cope (North Wales / Liverpool), or Richard Puddifoot (Solent).

Re: Sailmaking - Evaluation Sails

Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:11 pm
by Kuba
First of all - dear committee big thumbs up for seeing this project through :)

Secondly I would love to "have a go" and try new sails. Se how they reef for example - my Sobstad seems to suffer terribly when reefed :(

Thirdly - I am chatting with colleagues in ISORA who are mostly using North and I was most impressed with one of the J 109 boats - they had little tear on their NORTH No.3. Got in touch with North and they were told: We will send you new sail (not sure it is brand new) but new good sail and will collect the broken one so you can race mean time when we repair your old one. Wow this is what I would call a service !!! Someone who must be sailing himself - no doubt.

Looking forward to testing new sails. They look very "sexy" on the pictures enclosed :)

Re: Sailmaking - Evaluation Sails

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:01 pm
by Donald McLaren
Kuba, after the Evaluation Sails have been used at the Class Championship at Helensburgh in June they are next scheduled for competitive use at Cowes Week. Subject to you agreeing a schedule for handing sails over to Jeff Worboys or Richard Puddifoot then I would have thought we could easily include you in the process.

Re: Sailmaking - Evaluation Sails

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:52 pm
by Donald McLaren
As the photos are beginning to multiply in number, I am putting SkyDrive links here:
North.jpg (44.9 KiB) Viewed 13669 times
North: see ... see94seXMo
UK.jpg (59.85 KiB) Viewed 13669 times
UK: see ... 93PXlCigiE

All comments welcome!

Re: Sailmaking - Evaluation Sails

Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 2:46 pm
by Kuba
I am thrilled - they look fabulous - no small thanks to proper trimming, but even the reef points look very, very good, and No.1 will now have a tale tail window - how sexy :)

Looking forward to get the sails from Scotland to Southampton :) We could use them in the interim during ISORA races and then let other Sigmas use them in Cowes. We will be in Scotland and Cowes.

Re: Sailmaking - Evaluation Sails

Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 12:18 pm
by Donald McLaren
For general awareness, the UK and North sails were used in "battle conditions" during the Scottish Series at Tarbert over the long weekend of 24-27 May. Winds varied from light and fluky to 35 knots (and heavy rain!) and so all three sails - #1, #2 and main - were tested thoroughly. The outcome, after 10 races, was victory for "Sigmatic" (UK Sails) by a tie-break countback from "Mayrise" (North Sails). 3rd and 4th overall were also split by tie-break, both using Elvstrom.

The committee is fully monitoring feedback and resolution of minor niggles. Anyone looking for additional details should contact their local (or nearest) committee member, or contact me.

Re: Sailmaking - Evaluation Sails

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:22 pm
by paul

A trial sails update from Squawk who used the North’s at the Sigma Irish Championship at RUYC 7-9 June.
The three day event consisted of 10 windward/Leeward races. The brief to our RO was to have race duration of approximately 60-70 minutes with a windward leg of approximately .8 to 1 mile long (roughly 2 1/4 beats and 2 runs)

The wind conditions were light to medium (6-10 knots) on day 1, light on day 2 (4-7) and medium on day 3 (7-12), sea conditions were generally slight.

Squawks set – up is Uppers aft, with a rigging setting on the Loos PT 3 gauge of 20 (uppers) and 19.5 (lowers). On the Loos PT 2 gauge this is a higher setting (44.5 and 43, i think) than what the tuning guide in our handbook suggests. Our pre-bend without backstay was approx. 3-4 inches, with a forestay measurement of 42.5.

Our team thought the sails were excellent. The main is a little flatter than the Elvstrom main we use. Because, the wind was light to med we only ever used the #1. In general, in the light winds we thought we were a little sticky but as the wind increased the sails were as fast as the competition using Elvstrom's or UK’s.
In general the genoa car position was a hole further forward than we normally would use for our Elvstrom #1 and we adjusted headsail tension quite often.

Final results for the regatta saw a win by Squawk (North), Sula were 2nd using UK Sails and Signet of Kip 3rd using Elvstrom. The result was much closer than the final scoreline would suggest, after day 2 and 7 races there was only 4 points between Squawk 10 points and Sula and SOK joint 2nd on 14 points.

Our view was the sails were well built and competitive.


Re: Sailmaking - Evaluation Sails

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:15 am
by Skipperdave
My observations from looking at the pictures

One headsail is very flat. A bit more wind than for the other but the sheeting points appear roughly the same. As the entry is very flat it will need a good helmsman!

The other is totally the opposite with full entry, lots of twist and baggy. Although sheet is not in as much as the first picture the sheeting point appers the same and pulling it in will tighten leech more than reduce the camber/sheeting angle.

Both sails look attractive, but how do we compare performance when they appear to have been cut in significantly different ways. How do they Measure?
What spec was given to the makers? Remember one of the key criteria against which the bids are to be assessed is One-design repeatability!
Looking forward to seeing the sails at Cowes Week
Chaser GBR4448

Re: Sailmaking - Evaluation Sails

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:59 pm
by Donald McLaren
There is zero issue on repeatability - all sailmakers use processes which should assure this, and the two with whom we are evaluating are fully committed to addressing consistency of sail dimensions - as, of course, are Elvstrom. (There is a different discussion about consistency of sail design and dimensions in the period of "recent history", as Genesis evolved and as Sobstad, then Elvstrom, utilised different materials and lofts ... but that is not today's discussion.)

What is proving fascinating from the three events at which the sails have so far been used is that they seem to have little impact on the boats' results. I personally used the UK sails at Tarbert (which we won) and used my old Elvstrom and Sobstad sails at the Class Championship which we also won. I made no changes to my rig, and all that we chose to do was to fiddle with halyard tension and genoa car position in order to optimise sail shape.

Paul Prentice used the North sails at the Irish Championship, and won, and came 3rd using his Elvstrom sails at Helensburgh. Griogair Whyte was 3rd at Tarbert and 2nd at Helensburgh using Elvstrom. Alan Harper was 4th at Tarbert using Elvstrom and 5th at Helensburgh using UK. Tim Goodbody was 4th at the Irish Championship using Elvstrom and 4th at Helensburgh using North.

We will do a full analysis of all of this after Dun Laoghaire Regatta (in early July) and Cowes Week, and will do our best to broadcast the information to all. Feedback is very welcome. Note also that both UK and North are making minor adjustments to the sails as they are being used, and so by the time they reach Cowes Week some of the initial design anomalies will have been resolved.

Re: Sailmaking - Evaluation Sails

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:13 pm
by CPR99
Donald, is the objective to introduce some competition into the market and choice of sails and thereby reduce prices? Seems the results of the tests support many peoples view that sails alone don't win races and therefore a good idea for us paupers to see the benefit of reduced costs and get racing ;-)

Best regards, Colin (would be racer once I find cash and crew!)